Wednesday, November 5, 2008

Exit polls and race

According to Steve Sailer, Obama got 96% of the black vote and 67% of the Latino vote.


James said...


Obama did a bit better than Kerry with all racial and ethnic groups: blacks, whites, Latinos, Asians, etc.

Average Joe said...

So what? He still lost the white vote.

James said...

So what? He won more of the white vote than any Democrat in generations.

The last time a Democrat won the "white vote" was 44 years ago.

Average Joe said...

Which shows how the Democrats are increasingly growing out of touch with mainstream America.

James said...

Uh ... no, if anything, it shows that Democrats are growing increasingly in touch with "mainstream America."

After all, it shows that the Democrats are doing better and better with all voters, including white voters. They lost their majority among white voters back in the early 1960s, due to the unpopularity of granting civil rights to blacks. The trend is now the other way.

Now, whether we can properly call white voters, and only white voters, "mainstream America" at all is another question.

I will point out, however, that if the Democratic candidate for president just won more than 50% of the vote, and the Democrats increased their majorities in the House and Senate, there's no way that they're out of touch with mainstream America in any meaningful sense.

Indeed, it's clear that for the moment, it's the Republicans who are less popular with most of the country.

Average Joe said...

White voters are mainstream voters. If blacks represented the mainstream then this country would be a hellhole like Africa. The problem is that the Democrats represent the people who have made Africa and Latin America the sewers that they are today.

James said...

White voters are mainstream voters.

Not in my America. My ancestors didn't settle this country, and fight for its independence, so that we could say that some citizens are more equal than others.

Besides, in a few more years, white voters will be the minority in this country. Then, even by your race-oriented logic, we whites will no longer represent the mainstream.

Average Joe said...

Of course, when whites become a minority this country will become another part of the third world just like Africa and Latin America.

James said...

Well, then where do you plan to go?

To escape from a diverse and cosmopolitan America, which will somehow start magically performing like Africa and Latin America, just because its citizens look like the people of those continents?

Average Joe said...

I don't know where I will go then. The United States will not "magically" perform like those continents because the American population will look like those people. It will perform like those continents because Americans will be descended from those people.

James said...

So you really believe that race and ancestry determine how people behave?

Rather than, say, the culture they were raised in?

That sounds like magic to me. My understanding is that Africa has problems because its culture was not designed to response well to modern democratic and free-market institutions, and because colonialism left the continent bereft of the political and social institutions which had served it so well for millennia.

The United States, meanwhile, has been riding high because its cultural, social, and political values and institutions are well-attuned to the modern era, and because it got an early jump on industrializing. None of this will change just because more and more U.S. citizens, born and raised here, are descended from non-Europeans.

Average Joe said...

Genetics is much more important than culture in determining human behavior. If you don't believe me then check out the research of these scientists:

James said...

Thanks, but no, I don't believe you.

I've seen a tremendous amount of research, from a wide variety of fields, and it all shows that in the same social context, people are the same, regardless of race.

It's not "science" to cherry-pick one or two researchers whose conclusions you want to believe in, and whose methodology is widely scorned. Only by looking at the entirety of the field, and seeing what research holds up and what doesn't, can you possibly be able to say what "scientists" know.

Lynn's work, for instance, is horribly out of date. Not only have more recent studies consistently shown that there is no inherent difference in IQ, but that can be shown quite simply: the measured difference in IQ, which is generally attributed to differences in socioeconomic status and education, has been shrinking rapidly in societies where those of different races are gaining in socioeconomic equality. The "inherent difference," if any, becomes less and less with every passing year.

Most importantly, however, do you have any idea what impact a 5-point difference in IQ scores would make on human societies? Virtually none. It's simply not tenable to suggest that the plight of Africa is the result of a 5-point different in IQ scores.

Average Joe said...

Where is this "research"? Does it come from the Institute of Politically Correct Wishful Thinking? People are not the same and differ because of genetic differences which you would know if you bothered to read the research of the scientists that I linked to. Where are you getting the idea that there is only a 5 point difference between Africans and everyone else. Sub-Saharan Africa has an average IQ of around 70 while the average for white Americans is around 100. This is much greater than 5 points. If you don't like the work of the scientists that I linked to because it contradicts your left-wing beliefs then I suggest you check out this website instead:

James said...

Do you not remember the controversy last year when James Watson, the co-discoverer of DNA, mistakenly suggested that Africans might be less intelligent?

Virtually every scientist in the field came out to say that their research disproved this.

As for IQ scores, it's important to bear in mind that they aren't a measure of raw intelligence. Upbringing and education have a great deal to do with IQ score.

This is why the measured IQs of black Americans have soared in recent generations. Either IQ is largely about good education and early child development ... or blacks are rapidly becoming much smarter and will soon overtake whites. ;-)

Average Joe said...

Actually James Watson was right about African intellectual inferiority as the science supports.

Check out these links: